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Started February 22nd, 2010 · 16 replies · Latest reply by Spleencast 14 years, 1 month ago
"Hearts and Flowers" is a song composed by Theodore Moses Tobani (with words by Mary D. Brine) and published in 1899, though its melody originally appears in a collection called "Wintermärchen" written by the Hungarian composer Alphons Czibulka in 1891. Through its use accompanying certain silent films, the instrumental violin version has come to symbolize all that is melodramatic, sentimental or mock-tragic. Indeed, the humming of the tune is often combined with the miming of violin-playing to indicate mock-sympathy at someone's misfortunes.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearts_and_Flowers
I've uploaded a sample pack of me playing the phrase you're looking for on the violin. There are 9 takes in all, 6 in the original octave and 3 an octave higher. The last take in each octave ends with a comedic descending glissando.
Keep an eye on my userpage and you should be able to download the pack once they've passed moderation.
Enjoy!
Edit: Sample pack now available!
Now in pseudostereo with less bow noise ... http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=90900
Timbre
Now in pseudostereo with less bow noise ... http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=90900
The ones I uploaded were really completely raw-as-recorded with no treatment of any kind. The bow noise did bug me a little, but I just didn't feel like experimenting with fixes, so I'm really glad you did!
Spleencast
The bow noise did bug me a little, but I just didn't feel like experimenting with fixes
Here a tiny mic is shielded from the bow by the bridge ...
http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/Microphone-University/ApplicationGuide/~/media/Images/Content/MicUni/AppGuide/violin3.jpg
TimbreSpleencast
The bow noise did bug me a little, but I just didn't feel like experimenting with fixes
Perhaps putting the mic below rather than above the violin may reduce the bow noise, (i.e. sheild mic from bow using violin body).Here a tiny mic is shielded from the bow by the bridge ...
http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/Microphone-University/ApplicationGuide/~/media/Images/Content/MicUni/AppGuide/violin3.jpg
If you get a chance, try to make a recording by reproducing the mic position in your photograph. If you do so, you may find that not only does bow noise remain a fairly significant feature (since that mic is actually a whole lot closer to the hair on the string than mine was), but also positioning the mic that close to the bridge and violin body means that buzzy overtones and other intrusive harmonics will be picked up in a studio setting. In my experience, that position yields quite poor results in a recording studio but very good results for live performances.
My own computer is at the computer doctor's so I don't have my usual editing software available right now (Logic Pro and Soundtrack Pro), and because of that I was unable to do much more than just offer a raw recording for whomever wanted it. Perhaps when my Macbook gets out of hospital I'll play with the raw recordings a bit to see what I can do. Anyhow, I figured somebody would tweak it if they wanted to, and I'm glad you did.
I would imagine that all the "body" and warmth of the violin is due to the acoustics of the sound box. To get the full integrated tonal qualities of an individual instrument (other than just recognise what type of instrument it is) I would suggest the mic should be around a metre away and facing from the direction of a typical audience. This will give a natural balance between direct string sound, bowing, fingering, and all the resonances from the body. If the recording room is dry and quiet enough I would actually recommend two metres to mic.
Close miking can produce very "impressive" recordings, but rarely captures the true natural balance of any sound source. This "balance" needs to be artificially "re-created" with electronic processing. Of course I'm not deprecating the value of post-processing. Just about every commercial song is "airbrushed" or synthesised into a work of art which is significantly removed from being a mere compilation of the original acoustic recordings. I personally can appreciate both approaches, (natural v processed) in music purely depending on the quality of the final result.
strangely_gnarled
[...] To get the full integrated tonal qualities of an individual instrument (other than just recognise what type of instrument it is) I would suggest the mic should be around a metre away and facing from the direction of a typical audience. [...] If the recording room is dry and quiet enough I would actually recommend two metres to mic. Close miking can produce very "impressive" recordings, but rarely captures the true natural balance of any sound source. This "balance" needs to be artificially "re-created" with electronic processing.
In my experience, positioning a mic as far away as a metre or two from a musical instrument always results in inferiour-sounding recordings. Each instrument carries different mic-ing challenges, and recording and amplifying violin in particular is especially problematic for reasons I won't go into right now. Like the hundreds of experienced pro sound engineers I've worked with, I place the mic about 6 inches or so above and perpendicular to the end of the fingerboard, pointing downwards towards the instrument at about a 45 degree angle.
If anybody is reading this for advice on recording live musical instruments, I'd recommend experimenting with different mic placements and listening carefully to the results before choosing your final mic position. I'd further recommend that you experiment with editing afterwards to find out what can be reduced or emphasised with editing vs what can be reduced or emphasised via mic placement.
Bowing involves drawing coarse horse hair with sticky rosin across a string, the friction of which causes the string to vibrate. Without that friction, a violin will not sound in the way most of us are familiar with. That friction sound of hair vibrating the string is a fact of live violin playing. A mic will pick that up regardless of how expertly it is placed or how expertly edited afterwards.
I place the mic about 6 inches or so above and perpendicular to the end of the fingerboard, pointing downwards towards the instrument at about a 45 degree angle.
I would say this mic placement gives plenty of "bite" to the sound(as in your samples)and is fine when a bright lead is needed....the violin stabs in jigs and reels for example.For this sad sound here would you not consider placing the mic 2-3 feet above you and hanging blankets to damp the reverb?I've found (with cello) the further away the mic is,the smoother the sound which is useful sometimes.
...anyway,nice playing!...wish i had the vibrato down like yours
juskiddink
For this sad sound here would you not consider placing the mic 2-3 feet above you and hanging blankets to damp the reverb?I've found (with cello) the further away the mic is,the smoother the sound which is useful sometimes....anyway,nice playing!...wish i had the vibrato down like yours
The room I recorded in is pretty dead - carpeted, with floor-to-ceiling curtains and a bunch of other acoustically deadening stuff in it. I think what you interpreted as reverb may actually be the resonance of my wonderful violin.
And thank you for the compliment! Years of slavery to exercises, including vibrato exercises, have paid off, thank goodness.
Vibrato exercises which worked for me included rhythmically rocking my finger slowly back and forth, one rock per beat in 4/4 time. I did the exercise from the original note to a half step below, and a separate exercise rocking from the original note to a half step above. Then after doing that til I died of boredom, I ever-so-gradually speeded that up, working with a metronome. For each tempo I waited until I felt comfortable and sounded smooth and fluid (and also died of boredom) before moving on to a faster tempo. It didn't take that long to get a nice smooth, fluid-sounding vibrato at whatever pace I wanted.
I hope that wasn't too off topic! Good luck.
Spleencast
The room I recorded in is pretty dead - carpeted, with floor-to-ceiling curtains and a bunch of other acoustically deadening stuff in it. I think what you interpreted as reverb may actually be the resonance of my wonderful violin.
I did add a shedload of reverb to the latter takes in my remix, I can't hear any reverb on the original.
spleencast wrote
I think what you interpreted as reverb may actually be the resonance of my wonderful violin.
I can't hear any reverb on the original.
...sorry for my bad explaining :roll: i was meaning the room reverb that will increase as the mic is moved away from the sound source.....a generalisation,and not about this specific sample.
TimbreSpleencast
I'm thinking of recording the whole piece sometime.
If you're going to record a "violin in the movies" sounpack consider including a psycho-esque violin "eek-eek-eek" as there have been a few requests for it.
If it isn't, I'll be happy to record the famous violin segment from that score and share it. If it is, I'll try to do something reminiscent of it.
What I'd really appreciate is if somebody else who knows more about how to find out these things could establish for me whether the music from Bernard Hermann's score is free of copyright restrictions as far as performance by an artist is concerned? I think I've done as much as I can to find out, but I still have no conclusive answer. I'd really be grateful if somebody could establish this for me one way or the other before I record anything. Thank you.