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  • avatar
    134 sounds
    347 posts


    Agree.

    Emotions in such cases are not helping to solve the problem. But such problems help to adjust solutions in the future.

    http://planetaziemia.net - independent research on sound and consciousness
    http://conscious-sound.bandcamp.com - best sounds for extraordinary inner experiences
  • avatar
    164 sounds
    1289 posts


    So we may still not approve of what has been done retrospectively, but SEF has shown without a doubt he is willing to comply in different ways, so can we just lay this to rest and move on?

    @AlienXXX - I think it would be probably for the best to terminate this discussion. It's run it's course now don't you agree?

    I moderated some of the sounds he has recently uploaded and got the idea (from the description) that he is trying to rectify his wrongdoings by contributing to the community. I hate all this bitterness that's coming from people here I once respected.


    I am the thing that goes bump in the night...

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  • avatar
    121 sounds
    1539 posts


    OK everyone, chill out.

    I really hate to be called in on threads like these. They make me feel like I'm some kind of head-principal calling out the kids to smack them in the head.

    First of all, please take care of your language, I really don't like rude comments and bullying on freesound, this is childish and -tbh- very silly. Freesound is a place for sharing and respectful disagreeing. If you disagree with someone say so but please, show some respect. Bulbastre, JimiMod and Timbre in particular, are you kidding guys? Don't make me throw *all* of you out in moderator-rage.

    I get the feeling that SoundEffectsFactory has been behaving (much) better lately and has come to at least understand that some things we like, some we don't. The CC licenses allow people to make money from cc-by and cc-zero licenses, there is nothing wrong with that.

    So, I'm going to delete this topic in a bit, but I would like to suggest a few things and want some answers on this, especially from the more vocal kids in this thread:

    we can create a new thread on the forum in which SoundEffectsFactory can be notified of (possible) infringements of copyright in a respectful way. SoundEffectsFactory: does that sound OK to you? I would suggest this to be a collaborative thread where SoundEffectsFactory tries to take care of infringements within a respectful time frame.
    Misbehave in this new thread and you're out. This goes for all of you.

    I'll wait for some replies (SoundEffectsFactory, Bulbastre, JimiMod and Timbre in particular) and then I'm going to nuke this thread and I will create a new one.

    thx,

    - bram

    Warning: if you break the rules, see my avatar. Freesound Admin, Moderator, Ex-Freesound-Coder & Benevolent Dictator For Life.
  • avatar
    398 sounds
    19 posts


    I didn't know this thread existed and was surprised to find him still a member.

    Letting myself get baited into posting he and I's PMs was poor judgement on my part, censorship being a hot button for me.

    I've had plenty of second chances and am willing to afford one here, not bring my beef to our house for viewing and address any further matters with SEF exclusively.

    My opinion of his methods is my own and all I ever asked was that he remove my work from his distribution/sales locations. As long as that is in place I'm fine.

    Currently under investigation...
  • avatar
    200 sounds
    61 posts


    Hi,

    Ok, you're right. Sorry for overheating. It's just that yesterday I received this nasty news of my sound being redistributed without proper credit.
    I reported that to YouTube, Facebook and MediaFire. Go guess if they'll notice me. If they do, though, I think the most they will do is to erase that particular sound and move on, but for the looks of it, SEF has done this with dozens of other sounds, which is simply illegal.

    I'm ok with opening another thread in a more respectful manner, but HE HAS TO COLLABORATE. Otherwise, it's illegal and we should take legal action. Respectful, but firm.

    I haven't known of SEF's case until now, and I don't know if he changed his attitude or not.

    SEF:
    """Ever since the video containing your sound went up, if you were to expand the description of my video you would see that your are indeed credited. I have mentioned your freesound profile as well a link to the license terms you specified so others know how to use the sound.

    This is all that is required by the Attribution license and I may use your sound as I please for commercial purposes and to distribute.

    Perhaps you should read over the licenses that you specified before throwing accusations out."""

    bulbastre:
    """Yes, sorry. I hadn't seen the 'show more' expandable in the description.

    Could you link to the sound itself as well?

    According to this:
    "If supplied, you must provide the name of the creator and attribution parties, a copyright notice, a license notice, a disclaimer notice, and a link to the material."

    You need to link the original material. Thank you."""

    He still hasn't answered, but if he doesn't in a couple of weeks, I'll try to take full legal action.

    Sound recordist and sound designer www.albertbalbastre.tumblr.com
  • avatar
    220 sounds
    164 posts


    Bram wrote:
    Don't make me throw *all* of you out in moderator-rage.


    boo hoo

    never mind the bollocks zagi2
  • avatar
    1885 sounds
    1716 posts


    Bram wrote: … I'm going to delete this topic…

    You mean delete the thread without which SEF would still be using attribution non-commercial licensed Freesounds on monetized YouTubes without any attribution whatsoever ?

    Delete the thread which allows Freesound contributors (and other creators) being lied to by SEF in personal messages to see the true picture of his activities, ( it’s in SEF’s interest that his victims aren’t aware of each others existence, or his history ).

    Bram wrote:
    I get the feeling that SoundEffectsFactory has been behaving (much) better lately ... The CC licenses allow people to make money from cc-by and cc-zero licenses, there is nothing wrong with that.

    SEF's use of mediafire downloads offer NO attribution whatsoever - he has not changed his ways.
    e.g. http://mfi.re/listen/k75tt4bsq5r30l3/underground_tunnel_atmosphere_SoundEffectsFactory.wav
    which is … http://www.Freesound.org/people/rjonesxlr8/sounds/221583/ [(CC BY 3.0) March 2014].

    The URL's in his hidden YouTube attributions are not to the specific* Freesound used and do not include the title of the "the work", so his hidden YouTube attributions are still not compliant with the creative commons attribution license http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/legalcode

    [ * If he complied and posted a URL to the Freesound he's used, less punters would click on his attribution-free mediafire download, ( hidden in a "bit.ly" short URL), for which he receives advertising revenue ]

    Even if SEF is ever fully compliant with the creative commons attribution license,
    by re-hosting he’ll still be guilty of sharp practice … http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_practice
    Most Freesound contributors, (except the ones who have read this thread), have no-idea their sounds could be re-hosted, aka “re-served”, aka “used as stock”, on other file-sharing sites with little or no attribution.

  • avatar
    1885 sounds
    1716 posts


    SoundEffectsFactory wrote:
    He [Timbre] still has not explained this.
    Timbre wrote:
    " [ You mean delete the thread without which ] SEF would still be using attribution non-commercial licensed Freesounds on monetized YouTubes without any attribution whatsoever ? "
    Explanation: prior to the existence of this thread you were using Freesounds with a non-commercial attribution license without ANY attribution, see ... http://www.freesound.org/forum/legal-help-and-attribution-questions/33381/?page=1#post65455
    .
    SoundEffectsFactory wrote:
    In regards to the Mediafire downloads ...

    Your copies of Freesounds which have an attribution licence redistributed via mediafire must also comply with the creative commons license ...

    Creative Commons Attribution License, Restrictions, 4
    a. ... You must include a copy of, or the Uniform Resource Identifier (URI) for, this License with EVERY copy of the Work You Distribute ...
    b(i) ...the name of the Original Author (or pseudonym, if applicable) if supplied
    b(ii) ... the title of the Work if supplied
    b(iii) ... the URI, if any, that Licensor specifies to be associated with the Work
    http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/legalcode

    None of these four conditions are satisfied in your redistribution of attribution licensed freesounds via mediafire, e.g. http://www.mediafire.com/listen/k75tt4bsq5r30l3/underground+tunnel+atmosphere+SoundEffectsFactory.wav
    which is … http://www.Freesound.org/people/rjonesxlr8/sounds/221583/ [(CC BY 3.0) March 2014].

    If anyone wants to see if SoundEffectsFactory, aka SoundEffectsCapital, aka SoundEffectsArchive, is redistributing their sound via mediafire see http://bitly.com/u/o_5aprdql2ei [narrow the search via date]
    If you want to complain to mediafire see … http://www.freesound.org/forum/legal-help-and-attribution-questions/34819/

    SoundEffectsFactory wrote:
    I still encourage for any freesound members who would not like their sounds promoted on the channel to simply send me a PM here or on YouTube

    Encouraging them to waste their time sending you a private message is preferable to them complaining to YouTube and causing you get yet another channel taken down like "SoundEffectsCapital", http://www.google.com/search?q=%22SoundEffectsCapital%22+site%3Awww.youtube.com

    You're attempting to place the onus on the creators to alert you to any copyright infringement, whereas the responsibility is entirely yours to comply with any “necessary licenses” when you upload to YouTube ...

    YouTube Terms of Service Copyright policy
    7.4 You represent and warrant that you have (and will continue to have during your use of the Service) all necessary licenses, rights, consents, and permissions which are required to enable YouTube to use your Content for the purposes of the provision of the Service by YouTube

    If you don't fully comply with the terms of the attribution license you don't have the right redistribute the sound.

    After three YouTube channels and hundreds of uploads to YouTube you should know the rules by now.

    If anyone wants to complain to YouTube see my guide here ... http://www.freesound.org/forum/legal-help-and-attribution-questions/34244/
    .

  • avatar
    200 sounds
    61 posts


    Hi, I took my sound down of YouTube. I'm ok with you using and redistributing my sounds, also getting money on the process, but not without serious and proper credit. I sent this to your YouTube profile, on the discussion tab:

    """+SoundEffectsFactory Hi,

    Yes, sorry. I hadn't seen the 'show more' expandable in the description.

    Could you link to the sound itself as well?

    According to this:
    "If supplied, you must provide the name of the creator and attribution parties, a copyright notice, a license notice, a disclaimer notice, and a link to the material."

    You need to link the original material. Thank you."""

    You didn't provide all that, and I don't think you do with other sounds. You also don't credit in MediaFire. MediaFire is a different entity from YouTube, and there are ways to get to the file without using the YouTube link. Therefore, you need to credit there as well. Perhaps a text file, like hackers have been doing for ages, will do the trick.

    I reported the file to MediaFire as well.
    Again, I'm ok with you getting money, but the credit is an important matter not to be taken lightly.

    Sound recordist and sound designer www.albertbalbastre.tumblr.com
  • avatar
    1885 sounds
    1716 posts


    bulbastre wrote:
    MediaFire is a different entity from YouTube, and there are ways to get to the file without using the YouTube link.
    e.g. http://bitly.com/u/o_5aprdql2ei

    Also if the mediafire link is shared the recipient isn't informed about the creator or the need to attribute , mediafire files are readily shared ...


    http://www.mediafire.com/listen/k75tt4bsq5r30l3/underground+tunnel+atmosphere+SoundEffectsFactory.wav
    which is … http://www.Freesound.org/people/rjonesxlr8/sounds/221583/ [(CC BY 3.0) March 2014].

  • avatar
    200 sounds
    61 posts


    All the more reason to credit on every single file on every single place.
    It's as simple as writing the author's name on the file, and perhaps the real title, then putting [SoundEffectsFactory]. Then, the link to the original file on the description, along with the other couple of things - the license will be on the link to freesound, so no need for that.
    People will interpret different sounds of different authors are on a collection called SoundEffectsFactory. No one will think SoundEffectsFactory is the author, but the distributer, which that's what he is, and everything will be legal.

    Easy as pie.

    BTW, Timbre: how did you do that?

    Sound recordist and sound designer www.albertbalbastre.tumblr.com
  • avatar
    200 sounds
    61 posts


    Timbre wrote:
    bulbastre wrote:
    MediaFire is a different entity from YouTube, and there are ways to get to the file without using the YouTube link.
    e.g. http://bitly.com/u/o_5aprdql2ei

    Also if the mediafire link is shared the recipient isn't informed about the creator or the need to attribute , mediafire files are readily shared ...

    Also, there's FilesTube and other metafinders for this kind of sites, that work the same way Google would, but specializing in this kind of sites.

    Sound recordist and sound designer www.albertbalbastre.tumblr.com
  • avatar
    1885 sounds
    1716 posts


    bulbastre wrote:
    BTW, Timbre: how did you do that?

    The gif animation was created with http://www.cockos.com/licecap/ then posted to imageshack
    then I included its imageshack link into the post, so the animation appeared in the post.

  • avatar
    200 sounds
    61 posts


    OMG!

    Regarding SEF, in the worst case scenario where he's not willing to collaborate, is there any way to report him in bulk? It's extremely inefficient to report sounds ONE BY ONE, specially since the only ones who can do that are the author of the sound or his agent.
    i.e. I have to send a physical letter to USA for MediaFire to take down my one single sound.

    Sound recordist and sound designer www.albertbalbastre.tumblr.com
  • avatar
    1885 sounds
    1716 posts


    bulbastre wrote:
    ... I have to send a physical letter to USA for MediaFire to take down my one single sound.

    There's an online form (copy below) ... http://www.mediafire.com/help/submit_a_ticket.php?type=abuse

    [ if you have in-browser blocking software like "NoScript" enabled the form is not properly displayed ]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA_Takedown_Notice#Take_down_and_put_back_provisions

  • avatar
    200 sounds
    61 posts


    AND THEN you have to send a physical copy to USA.

    Sound recordist and sound designer www.albertbalbastre.tumblr.com
  • avatar
    1885 sounds
    1716 posts


    bulbastre wrote:
    AND THEN you have to send a physical copy to USA.

    If that's correct and you don't want to use snail mail, try "I would like to report a terms of service violation" instead of "I would like to file a DMCA Take Down notice" , ( see the form on my previous post ) ...

    MediaFire Terms of Service
    Acknowledgement

    You affirm, represent, and warrant that you own or have the necessary licenses, rights, consents, and permissions to store, share or distribute the Content ...

    ... If any piece of it was created by someone else, you swear you have their permission to store it for your own use or share it....

    ... Distribute an illegal or unauthorized copy of another person's trademarked or copyrighted work ...

    ... Distribute Content that violates the rights of others, such as distributing Content that infringes any copyright ...

    ... When MediaFire removes or disables Content for policy violations, the user who posted the Content may receive a strike. The user is notified of the violation. Repeated policy violations may result in account termination

    http://www.mediafire.com/policies/terms_of_service.php

  • avatar
    1885 sounds
    1716 posts


    Creative Commons Attribution License
    4. Restrictions
    b "... reasonable to the medium ..."
    http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/legalcode

    If the medium is video then shouldn't the credit be on-screen, like a movie or TV show ?

    Then people viewing via YouTube re-hosters ( like "clip.dj" ) would get to see a credit ,
    when otherwise they would not get an opportunity to see the currently inadequate attribution hidden in the "See more" section, so can download the YouTube soundtrack as an mp3 without being aware of its attribution license ...

    What is "reasonable" is debatable , but complying with specific license terms is not ...

    Creative Commons Attribution License, Restrictions, 4
    a. ... You must include a copy of, or the Uniform Resource Identifier (URI) for, this License with every copy of the Work You Distribute ...
    b(i) ...the name of the Original Author (or pseudonym, if applicable) if supplied
    b(ii) ... the title of the Work if supplied
    b(iii) ... the URI, if any, that Licensor specifies to be associated with the Work
    http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/legalcode

  • avatar
    371 sounds
    252 posts


    Timbre wrote:
    Bram wrote: … I'm going to delete this topic…

    You mean delete the thread without which SEF would still be using attribution non-commercial licensed Freesounds on monetized YouTubes without any attribution whatsoever ?

    Delete the thread which allows Freesound contributors (and other creators) being lied to by SEF in personal messages to see the true picture of his activities, ( it’s in SEF’s interest that his victims aren’t aware of each others existence, or his history ).

    Yes!....I think this thread is seminal in relation to (freesound) copyright issues and has been widely read.It is very useful,both to conscientious users as guidance and as a warning to potential abusers that infringement of copyright law will be exposed and strongly contested.This thread has had a definite,positive effect and it would be self-defeating to delete it.The abusive and irrelevant posts however are really annoying and should be deleted.

  • avatar
    200 sounds
    61 posts


    Yes, I'm ok with my angry posts being deleted, but not the thread - it's ridiculous.

    Sound recordist and sound designer www.albertbalbastre.tumblr.com